qft. Maybe adjust the plexing points to victory points and tweak the victory points you get for killing opposing militia pilots. Not sure if you get victory points for missions. Would hope not as someone abusing militia as a cash cow and contributing nothing to his cause should have no say either.

Bottom Line:

-No one on CSM caring to contact FW pilots for there opinion (so much for representation)
-No one on CSM from FW representing US.
-No ability for FW pilots to see eye to eye on anything let alone all agree to a candidate or two to toss in their hat to the CSM race and represent ALL FW pilots.

P.S. After trying out plexing. All those that think plexing is boring or 'PVE' etc. Your doing it wrong! plexing got me more fights/kills and losses than anything else i tried in eve ever.

I do agree that FW mission running has taken a hit for isk per hour and there are better isk per hour activities out there. I also agree that its not that bad as it currently is. I also agree that over time it has become much less isk per hour and Incursions are great isk. I also think that its just going to get worse as Navy T1 BSs continue to flood the market.

The thing about FW missions isn't that there is better isk per hour its that the effort is much less compared to other tasks. You mention Lvl 5 missions. I don't know very many 1 year characters running Level 5 missions solo or duo. I have seen and worked with many young characters (or alts) that joined FW and made tons of isk with little effort. Incursions take a small gang and has the new AI which I think FW should have.

I don't want to nerf the missions so that people cant make money and I don't really want to make them harder per say. Keep the theme of Warp in kill a couple things and leave with out salvaging or dealing with the left over rats. But get rid of the one faction is easier to farm then the other and make them omni damage and omni ewar (ECM, Web, Scram, Neut, ect). Give them the new AI so the cepter SB no longer works and people start running them with small fleets. Bump up the pay out so that its still worth doing even with 5 to 10 guys. Getting more fleets running around lowsec is just asking for PvP. It shouldn't hurt the bottom line just the fact that now there is risk and more PvP to be had for all in FW lowsec.

One thing I would like to say quick is that I don't think FW sucks in its current form. I actually like it allot and with the new patch I think some of the fixes have made it even better. I just see allot of potential with small tweeks to the current system to foster more of a PvP environment then a PvE environment.

I guess I just see adding the new AI as a simple elegant solution.

Those are just excuses to keep the farming going. Whats so horrible about having the new AI in missions other then "I don't want to" or "I like the lazy isk I make." Saying races should hold true to their EW just because the old AI did it that way and it sucked isn't a good reason to keep it. You have to admit the old AI is horrible and sure they will never get rid of it for fear the hisec mission farmers will stop playing but the new AI is much better and I haven't heard a good reason for not including it in FW missions. Also I don't see why a Caldari ship should have to be restricted to Caldari damage types and EW when clearly they aren't. Just because the old system had that restriction doesn't make it true, just proves how sad the old system was. Any ship in this game can have any kind of tank, EW, and damage types. I don't see why NPCs should always be restricted by such an out dated AI.

Doing level 4 missions with a bomber and inty is bullshit and needs to be nerfed. Those ships are essentially 0 risk for someone who isnt asleep at their keyboard. Cloaky T3s suck too, but its possible to catch them at least on occasion.

Bottom line, the lucrative part of FW should not be set up to favor non-fighting carebears, or if it does, they should have to fly real ships to do the missions. So there is some risk. The system needs to reward PVP - which is the reason for FW, and right now, it doesnt.

Actually, thats a good idea. Make missions like plexes. Set the gates to only allow a certain ship class and UP for missions. Level 4s would require HACs, CS or BS. Then make them sit on a button for a few minutes. Tthey woul be at real risk for PVP. That would solve the carebear farmer issue.

Though I am ok with the curent combat plex mechanic.

I mean in idea.

1)So you active you scanner and find a vulnerable listing post/weakness in you defence line.
2)A commander gives you standing orders on the field to report to a location.

Witch idea seams like witch mechanic?

As they are now missions are to much like mob hits, I mean that's cool for one I'm doing Guristas missions cuz their a pirate group. But one a uniformed officer tells me to go to a location and kill one guy, that just seems like not my job in militia. That seems like you should use a assassin or somth'n.
And Plexing is too much like standing around on guard duty.
The more I think about it all seems like 'Blarg" the guy from Super Mario World, whys is it like that and what was it spo'sta be.
Dose this mean it will all get changed? Got no idea.
Dose this means CCP and the CSM will make missions like minnig and plexing like sov war?

I think there is an imbalance in the races. Running missions for Amarr you get painted by the rats and get hit with lots of missiles. If you want to solo the missions you need a drake and even then I have to do frequent warp outs. Everytime you warp out and back you are at greater risk of getting caught on the gate. I think the difficulty of amarr fw missions is really pretty well balanced.

IMO Make the other races similar to amarr, and tie the lp to vp or pvp and missions are fixed.

Edit and that drake is entirely pve fit.

The problem with all of mecha's argument is that you consider bomber and inty solo. Its not. Can you run two ships on one eve program? No you have to dual box.

Your argument is I am playing two accounts and doing two peoples jobs and counting the money as one character???

No

Two accounts = income split between two ways.

Now if you can solo in a frig (pick one) and by solo I mean ONE SHIP. Then yes we have a problme. However the current method of FW missions align up perfectly with pirate 00 missions.

The reason people come to lowsec to farm missions is because lowsec is generally safer from anyone coming and killing you.

You have to worry about sec status if you kill someone and you are not in FW, and the FW members are to lazy to interupt someone missioning.

You can EASILY stop a mission runner, but it is boring as hell. And that is why we dont do it. When you get into a system and you dscan a ship to see that its a bomber running the mission, who really tries to go kill it? No one. Its too much work to try and catch it. You could prevent it and frusterate the hell out of him but that takes time to.

Just because you dont do the options that would prevent/limit mission running does not mean it is OP.

EDIT

And if you have to solo in an ishtar, there is real risk. The cost of the ship vs the mission is abslutely worth it. I tell you this, if I see an ishtar on dsacn running a mission you bet your ass I am going to try and catch it

Bad messenger - your posts consistently defend the system as being perfectly fine, as you argue with every single person that offers up any idea to change it.

By basically telling all the Faction Warfare pilots to stop complaining about everything, the result is that you sound like someone who is quite happy to farm missions and wants the system to be left alone.

Do you actually think the system could use improvement, and if so, what do you suggest?

We are not talking about how to complete the mission (bomber and inty) but how to add player interaction to stop a mission runner?

Nope, you got it wrong again.

No one said that it prevents us from PvPing, we're saying it slows down PvP. It nerfs one of the incomes that was designed to sustain Faction Warfare.

The point of missions is to provide high rewards (at increased risk) to FW pilots so they can support constant PvP.

The more time people come and farm the missions and take the isk elsewhere, the longer we have to grind to be able to support PvP. That does NOTHING to help the FW scene, it just slows everything down.

Seriously, stop throwing down straw man arguments. You take everything someone in here says and take it to the extreme so you can refute it. Actually listen to what people are posting if you're going to keep replying.

And again, you're throwing down straw man arguments. Carriers have an extremely high rate of return on insurance, the few that I've lost before (like 2?) I went out and replaced the same day without missioning at all, cause insurance paid for most of it.

Say what you please, in threads like these its ridiculously easy to spot who is here to talk about FW improvements, and who is here to fiercely defend mission income. Actual FW pilots understand and respect my motivations for being here, and its their opinion I care about in the end.

Are you daft?? No one here is talking about nerfing mission income. Some people have mentioned getting rid of them, since they're a form of PvE and FW is mainly about PvP. You consistently protest every step of the way .... saying "income is fine, income is fine".

You keep calling me a greedy bastard while you wear the monocle and explain to everyone here how make the most isk from FW. You're as transparent as glass, my friend.

Orbit buttons of course.

Are you daft?? No one here is talking about nerfing mission income. Some people have mentioned getting rid of them, since they're a form of PvE and FW is mainly about PvP. You consistently protest every step of the way .... saying "income is fine, income is fine".

You keep calling me a greedy bastard while you wear the monocle and explain to everyone here how make the most isk from FW. You're as transparent as glass, my friend.

You, on the other hand, are NOT bringing anything constructive to the conversation, nor do you stick to the topic of the threads you post in. You also either don't read people's posts carefully, or you do and deliberately choose to use straw man arguments to try to derail ideas. Like the last one, asking if I wanted to remove FW missions - despite the fact that I've never proposed that idea, not once, not anywhere in the entire forum.

The more time people come and farm the missions and take the isk elsewhere, the longer we have to grind to be able to support PvP. That does NOTHING to help the FW scene, it just slows everything down.

We now have a militia with thousands of enrolled pilots, only a fraction of which actually end up on the killboards. That is not what FW is about, nor was this the result CCP intended when they designed FW. The solution is extremely simple - simply beef the AI in the missions, to make bomber-farming obsolete. Bomber-chasing is not fun PvP. Chasing just about anything else that's non-cloaky is.

Confirming I would just make an alt to farm fed navy webs, navy comets, and hookers.

Biggest proponents of the whole remove faction war missions are the gallente who currently pretty much have had the one sided fight in their favor for so many months now. Now they want more ways so that they can "magically" get noobs en mass to give them free killmails or the proverbial "good fight". I don't know about you but I kill plenty of gallente stealth bombers in missions. It's not a garuenteed kill everytime, they often get away. I catch plenty of snowflakes in the missions though. Infact it is quite enjoyable to go farm "noob mails" in the back pockets, rather than bring a small gang of 5 guys out only to get bitched out in local by the other militia for not fighting a gang twice (sometimes four to five times) in number and twice in ship size. I don't know if my blocked list has anymore room.

YouGÇÖre absolutely right Bad Messenger. IGÇÖve let this get personal. My frustration is that IGÇÖve spent months now trying to coordinate the FW community into a single voice GÇô to avoid the amarr vs. minmatar, gallente vs. caldari grudges and trash talk (leave it on the server) so we can all work together to help CCP understand what the community wants fixed about the feature, so it becomes an active warzone again.

Wait. We have been approved for shenanigans? When was there approval for shenanigans?

HOW DID I MISS APPROVAL FOR SHENANIGANS?!?!

I knew there was something wrong with this lousy excuse for a corp.

[quote=BolsterBomb]
I support this message, one thing we may want to fight off (depending on the community) is to prevent alliances (get rid of their patch for it) If we let 0.0 alliances in FW as we know it will go away.
/quote]

Well, "they're here" whether we like it or not, the patch is live, and as far as I know FW still exists. I haven't heard of an Alliance yet that has signed up, or an Alliance formed from within Faction Warfare corps.

Does anyone have any field reports as to any Alliances that have applied and enlisted yet?